Imagine driving by houses to find leads but doing it all virtually. With the power of technology, you can do just that by simply accessing the DealMachine App’s free CRM and pull-up lists. To talk more about this technology is the Vice President of Partnerships at DealMachine, Matt Kamp. Join Jen Du Plessis as she sits down with Matt to discuss how to become a real estate investor quickly. Go out and start taking action, and let DealMachine handle all the information. It’s up to you to fight this analysis paralysis and get started in real estate.
Looking for some help? Jen is seeking individuals who would like to be featured as a panelist on the show for her Mortgage Lending Mastery Mastermind Series.Email Support@KineticSparkConsulting.com to get scheduled!
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DealMachine: Real Estate Investing In The Palm Of Your Hand With Matt Kamp
I want to introduce my guests right away. Matt Kamp is the Vice President of Partnerships for DealMachine. You can go to DealMachine.com. It’s a leading growth platform for real estate investors. One of the reasons why I brought him on is because I’m a real estate investor and we have some things happening during COVID that I feel is an opportune time for loan officers and real estate agents to start looking at additional streams of income. That’s why I have Matt on here.
DealMachine helps real estate investors scale a team, if you want, to identify properties that may be off the market pocket listings and build a marketing list so you can buy some properties, reducing your marketing spending and therefore increasing your ROI. Matt led partnerships for Influence & Company and Inc. 500 list content marketing agency and helped grow the firms from 8 to 80 employees. He also co-organizes Funders and Founders, a virtual marketing event connecting entrepreneurs with investors and vendors to help them grow. Matt is a family man with two boys and a baby girl at home.
Let’s dig right in. Deal Machine is an app for people. I’ve been very clear on my show. I’m not here to pitch products necessarily but I am here to help people with personal and professional development. I want to talk about that and your opinion on it. What do you see as the opportunity for investors? How does that relate to real estate agents and loan officers? How can they use that to help them as well?
Thank you so much, Jen, for having me on. I love speaking to your audience because they’re super engaged and your past interviews have been topnotch too. The idea behind it came from our founder, who had previously been a tech entrepreneur. He was new to real estate investing and to the real estate world in general trying to scratch his edge. He was trying to figure out, “How do I find that first deal? How do I get into real estate investing?” If you’re a realtor, “How do I provide value to my clients in creative ways?” It’s the same with loan officers as well.
Where he started behind that was to figure out, “How do I create a technology to find that next deal and help people network and get to know buyers and sellers?” That technology is what DealMachine is. It’s an app that you can download for free. It’s a CRM that helps you manage your pipeline for generating that next lead and getting in touch with people. It’s also a technology to help you enable like when you drive down the street and see a property, you’re easily able to get in touch with that person, whether it be a phone call, email or direct mail piece. It helps you do all of those things. It was born out of that.
I can understand that situation. As an investor, I get it but if someone’s reading going, “Is that a problem? How hard is it to find properties?” Can you talk about what people have to go through to find properties for sale that aren’t necessarily with a sign on it?
Our main deal is figuring out how you do this in a way that you get directly to the property owner. Not have to wait for it to be officially listed. Even beyond that, being able to think about how you do that at scale is the main value behind it, using technology to be able to reach out to many people and be able to use it in a way that you don’t just find the one-off and network one to one but put yourself out there consistently in front of potential sellers.
That means using direct mail or other marketing channels to be able to do this at scale. There are many more barriers to understand like you’d have to write down the address, look up how to get in touch with them, figure out how to call them and how to send an email or a postcard, whereas this is a way to do that at scale and use technology to automate a lot of that.
I have a system that I can use that will identify some properties but I still have to print, lick, stick and stamp everything, then wait for them to get in touch with me, wonder if they’re the right person and who I’m getting. “Am I getting a renter at this house and it’s not the owner?” It’s a very time-consuming process. While that’s happening, deals are getting past you because you’re not there at the right time.
It’s a timing thing if you can outreach to people. Even if you have a great initial touchpoint with them and send a great mailer, that might not be the right time. It might be something where you got on their radar but if you consistently follow up, the main key that we find people having success in is that follow-up. If you’re able to send a mailer every couple of months, every month or whatever it might be, you’re at the top of the list when they are ready to sell or move. You’re the one who’s built that relationship with them, stay top of mind over time.Technology has the ability to help you reach out to many people and put yourself out there in front of potential sellers. Click To Tweet
Let’s talk about COVID. In 2020, everybody was singing the blues about everything. There’s movement in the market. People have been in their homes and done renovations or not, decided they wanted to move but more specifically, they have adapted or decided to go through forbearance and say, “This is great. My lender says they don’t have to make my payment. I won’t make my payment.” That’s all coming to a close and the lenders are saying, “We need our money.”
We’re going to find that there are going to be a lot of people that can’t make that payment up, can’t make that difference and have to go through a process. That’s going to provide opportunities fortunately for us. Right before COVID, if someone bought a house with little or no equity as an owner-occupied, lost their job and the only way to get a new job is to go to a different state. They don’t have the equity to sell.
These are sometimes distressed situations and sometimes, “I need to do this quick.” Setting up where we are in the marketplace because I do feel like we’re at the brink of this being a big investor market. Tell us a little bit about what you’re seeing. What seems to be the trends? Is it buy and hold? Is it fix and flip or renovate? What is it that you’re seeing investors are doing?
It’s a good way to provide context as well. Regardless of what you’re doing, being able to diversify your strategies, think through it and be known as this connector and as somebody who can provide solutions for buyers and sellers, especially if you’re in a position to be able to fulfill on both ends or you’re able to help them in whatever way possible, that’s where you wanted to be. That’s something you can evolve with the market and do more of one or another or prepare properly as things shift. We see quite a bit of talk in the arena, whether it’d be sometime in 2022 when things are going to catch up to us. It’s tough to look into that crystal ball and know exactly what’s going to happen.
I do know people who are thinking about lead gen. It’s a combo of a lot of wholesalers, people who are buying and holding and beyond that. We’ve seen fix and flip maybe slow down a little bit too. In the end, no matter what you’re doing, being seen as this go-to resource for people and being able to use technology to help connect yourself with buyers and sellers is going to put you in the right position to be able to evolve with the market.
Let’s talk about diversity. It’s different investment types. I wouldn’t even say diversity at this point. I spent the entire weekend holding a retreat for my loan officers and real estate agents, a small group of them. Every one of them wants multiple streams of income. As a whole, in these two industries, many loan officers and real estate agents aren’t investors.
They have their primary home, maybe a 2nd home or 1 investment but they don’t have any 2nd, 3rd or whatever source of passive income. What words of wisdom would you like to give to everyone about that too? How could this app help people make that transition into it? It’s so hard to transition into being an investor. There’s a lot of talk about it.
In general, some of the areas that we see people making mistakes is that paralysis by analysis where you’re taking in so much information. That’s fantastic. We’re living in the information age where you can access shows like this but taking action on that information and getting out there is the next step and the thing that’s going to help you build momentum.
You see a lot of millionaires have 6 to 7 forms of income. There are so many cases that you can see of why you need to diversify your income and had your bets by being able to supplement what you’re doing during the day by investing and things like that. Real estate investing is going to make you a better agent and loan officer. It’s going to help you build that network.
Many of your best clients may come from that network. You’re going to learn your market much better too if you’re doing that. It’s a natural extension of what your day job might be but one of the main reasons we built DealMachine too is to say, “Let us be a technology to generate leads for you, whether you be an investor, agent or wholesaler,” whatever the particular approach might be.
We can do it in a couple of different ways. You can either physically get out there and drive for dollars, get your car drive down the street and find properties. That way, you can hire a driving team to go do that for you. You can pull lists from the technology to be able to tell you like, “Here’s every house that fits these particular criteria within our area.” You can use the CRM to manage the whole thing. We’ve built a couple of different ways to be able to go and do that.
I have a couple of questions about that as well. Let’s say I’m a real estate agent. Where am I going to benefit the most from this? I have the feeling I know the answer because there was a comment that I hear all the time. “There’s no inventory.” If you’re a real estate agent reading this, you can take this as another tool in your tool kit to provide value to your real estate agent. I’m a listing agent. Where am I going to benefit from my realtor job?
In the end, our goal is to have a technology that enables you to skyrocket your inventory and pour fuel on that. The ways you can do that, it’s either the driving for dollars method, which you can also do quite a bit around like virtual driving for dollars. We have a Chrome plugin to help you do that and do it through Google maps, especially in the COVID areas too. That’s something that people are doing from their house on their couch. We had talked to somebody that was doing it while watching football. You can multitask a little bit.
Being able to generate leads through a method and then you up your inventory that way. Taking it to the next level is hiring that driving team. That’s the area that we recommend people like if you know anybody that’s an Uber or Lyft driver, Instacart, Amazon or anything where they’re out driving already, especially if they have time in between trips. “While you’re out, drive around and take a few pictures of properties for me that would fit my criteria.”
Through DealMachine, you can track what properties they’re putting in, what routes they’re driving and productivity overall. You can pay them per qualified lead and get in front of people that way where it fills up your CRM. You start sending direct mail to those people and then you’re focused on filling your inventory again.
What are people paying people to drive? Is it a profit share? Is it $20, $10 an hour or something less than that? Is it based on, “Get five people in my database?” How was that done?
It’s a combo. The most common payment method we’ve seen is an hourly $10, $15 an hour-type deal. Also, combining that with performance metrics saying, “We’ll pay you $1 per qualified lead that you put in.” The way that our technology works is when they drive around and started putting properties into the technology, you have to go in, approve and say, “It looks good. I’ll start sending mail to them. I’ll give them a call.”
In that way, they’re not sending out a bunch of mailers for you. You’re also able to quality control at that point and say, “They drove for $15 in 1 hour or 2 hours. They put in 50 leads for me. Forty of them look good.” You pay him an extra $40 or whatever metric might be for those qualified leads. We have seen some profit share as well. That’s going to motivate people even more.
Especially if you’re using it as a real estate investor specifically, pitching them and saying, “This is a way for you to learn about real estate investing.” Help them be a newbie, get used to this and learn that way. That’s another pitch that we’ve seen. From a payment standpoint, it’s usually a combo of hourly with performance-based.Fight analysis paralysis. You need to take action and get out there. That is the next step that will help you build momentum. Click To Tweet
That’s important because in this industry many years ago, we got up on a Sunday morning on our bikes with our kids on the back of the bikes and we had our little flyers. We shoved them into the Washington post plastic bag, in the middle of the night or put them on the outside of the mailbox. We got to the point where we hired some people to do that and what we found is that they took the whole pile and threw it away.
That’s why I like the idea of “driving or biking for dollars.” It has been around forever but our goal is to use technology to give you data. It’s quality controlled there too.
What’s great about that is that being a real estate agent, while you’re being a loan officer and you’re doing what you do best, you have someone out there work for you but they’re bird-dogging for you so that you don’t have to get home, be exhausted and try to find some time. You can have someone else be out there doing this for you while you’re making the big bucks and bringing that in. What kind of conversion ratios are you all seeing in a CRM or is that based on the person’s CRM? Do you have a template of conversations, subject lines and the timing in between them? Tell us how that works.
From a conversion rate perspective, it is highly variable based on all those things you’re laying out there. We’ve focused on making the technology while you’re setting yourself up for success. Whenever you send out a postcard, if you don’t touch anything, it automatically imports the address on there and the right copy. We have more than ten templates that are in there all designed for that reason to be able to set you up for success.
If you don’t even touch anything, it’s automatically already going to send you some pretty high-quality copy and postcard design. One element that we tweaked is if you are out in the field and have a bird-dog or even yourself taking pictures of that property. That picture will import right onto the direct mail piece too. That’s especially key if it’s an absentee owned-property.
They might even know the shape of their properties. They might see it and say, “Is that what my property looks like?” That gets away higher response rate. Our technology is set up to give you a great template to do that and be able to follow up automatically so you can say, “Follow up with them every three weeks or every month,” or however long you want to put in there so you can program that out, beforehand. The default on there is 21 days and so 3 weeks to make sure you stay top of mind but that’s all customizable too.
Conversion rate depends on all those variables and then what your conversion is. If it’s an agent that’s focused on listings, that’s going to be a different number. I know our real estate investor friends, someone who’s focused on building that out. What we try to coach people on is say, “Start with putting in 200 qualified properties, which give or take on how long it takes you.” Most people are doing that within 5 to 10 hours, usually driving around.
Put in that many properties, whether it’s yourself or somebody you hire to go drive and do that. Market to them each a minimum of three times. Ideally, send them three postcards if you can. We say those initial batch of 600 touchpoints. From an actual real estate investment perspective, most of our users are getting their first actual closed deal contract signed and everything within that initial batch.
It’s something that takes consistency. You got to get out there and make this a good habit or hire someone to do that for you. From a pure number’s perspective, we have seen people put in four properties and close. Sometimes you get lucky but we say, put in that initial batch and then make sure that’ll set you up for success.
Realtors could use this as well to be the straw that stirs the market. They’re going out there and finding properties that maybe aren’t on the market. Maybe they’re distressed and haven’t called anybody. You’re at the right place at the right time, which people call luck and that’s actual work. How do some of the real estate agents use it to get listings if they are not distressed like they’re driving and saying, “I’d like to list that house because my client would love that house?” Is that how that’s done?
You can approach it with that mindset as well. The distress piece gives you a higher odd, especially on the investment side. If you’re looking to be an agent investor, somewhere in that realm, the distressed piece, you can have higher odds of being successful there. If you have a seller that knows, “I love this size of a house, this ARV and area,” there are many criteria that you can filter through with our data. You can either drive around. There’s a feature within DealMachine that says, “Highlight all properties that meet these criteria.”
With the maps feature, you can say, “I want these ten different things about the house. Show me everything that fits it within this ZIP code.” It’ll pop up and put green boxes around every single house that fits that criteria. You can do that, drive around and validate with your own eyes or simply pull that list and say, “We have a qualified list to start marketing,” either sending direct mail to or calling. It’s a way to be able to find that dream home from a buyer’s perspective and use criteria that way or you can validate it as a distressed property while driving and then use it as a filter that way.
Are you able to save those types of searches? Let me give you an example. We have a real estate agent that we use for our investment properties. She knows our criteria and what we’re looking for. A lot of times, we get pocket listings because she’s like “I found one. It’s not clicking on the market. I went on the market. Here’s the deal. It’s not a pocket listing.” Would a real estate agent be able to enter that information in, save that criteria, go back in and say, “Are there any more that popped up? Are there any more Jones?”
I launched a specific feature. We call it a Smart Lists. If you go into our list engine, physically circle it on the map, put in a certain ZIP code or even city. You can do it city-wide if you want to get broad. You can go in there and say, “Here are my criteria. Show me all the properties that fit that.” It will say, “Matt, you’ve got 50 that fit these criteria.”
Every single Monday, we update that Smart Lists feature database. That way every Monday, if there’s another house that’s added to that criteria or taken away from that criteria, it automatically updates that on your list. You can get in there on a Monday and say, “I’ve got 55, 45 properties or whatever it might be.” You can sync your marketing to that too. It’s smart marketing where you have this list that is going up and down according to that criteria.
I mailed it to 55 people. There are only 48 and they’re different 48.
It optimizes your marketing spend by adding or taking away the ones that don’t fit your criteria anymore.
Let’s switch gears. I’m a loan officer. How can a loan officer benefit from learning about this to be able to help their clients or real estate agents?
You can use it as a networking tool. My take on business development is to provide value. Give value, education, connections, leads any way you can. That way, you’re opening doors for yourself, especially for loan officers. If you’re able to use this technology, give this to agents, help them and use it as a way to be able to supply them with leads, inventory and other networking opportunities.
You can even go in there and if you see a property that’s 100% owned and corporate-owned, that’s a way even to pull cash buyers lists. There are ways to use it as a networking tool. All those things are going to set you way above any other. It will put you at the top of your class in terms of your industry. While it’s a little bit of a creative use case, there’s a ton of value of ways you can do that and give it to your whole network.
Let’s go ahead and switch over to investors. I’m a real estate agent and a loan officer or whoever is reading. I am a whole variety of people that are outside of that as well. I’m thinking, “I want to get into this investment game.” One of the things you said is, “Find 200 properties by 10 hours.” I’m looking at that going, “I could pay a kid $10 an hour to drive around during COVID to have something to do and get out of the house.”
For $200, I could have them drive around to 200 properties. I can do that locally or in Timbuktu as long as it’s in the United States. I could do that in any segment of the market that I wanted to, try to reach out and post something online that says, “I’m looking for a driver, whatever the case may be.” I have marketing pockets all over the place. I see that as a way to get started but there’s got to be some way to get started beforehand. You want to be a real estate investor. Where’s the best place for you to start from your perspective?
Even when you are outsourcing or hiring drivers, it is like the next-level strategy. I do recommend doing it yourself, to begin with. Getting in there and taking action is the first step. Reading to all these things, a variety of information sources and taking action, our goal is to lower the barriers and that is to download this app. You’ve got the free CRM to manage your properties there. You can start a free seven-day trial to push you and say, “This is what I mean by taking action and get out there.”
That initial opportunity is using either our street engine or list engine but the street engine especially is our driving for dollars piece where if you go drive down the street, go to a particular neighborhood based on your experience in your day job is a great place to invest and start driving around potentially. The lowest hanging fruit to me is the properties that are the most distressed on the block, the ones that are being least taken care of on the block. Especially if they’re absentee owners, the one less barrier to jump over for people is they don’t have to even move.
Those two criteria starting there, our app will tell you when you enter that property if it’s an absentee owner property or not. You’re then able to say, “I can either skip trace and call this person.” For us, it’s $0.17 to do that so you can call that person or send a direct mail piece, which is $0.55. It’ll send them a postcard and you can put on whatever you like but it automatically will say, “I was driving past your house. Here’s what I saw. Would you be open to selling this property?” If you’re able to consistently get out there, hit those first 200 properties and follow up with them multiple times, that’s where you’re going to get that first deal. When you’re able to do that, you’ll build momentum.
Let’s talk about financing. Are most of the investors that come in are newbies and gone to a real estate investing guru? The guru says, “You have to do all this.” You’re coming in saying, “I can make it easier for you to do that.” What about the person that’s like, “I want to be an investor and find some houses. What are they going to do when they make that call?” They say, “I saw your house. Do you want to sell it?” They go, “I’d like to sell it.”
What we know in lending might not be in the best condition and we can’t get a loan. Do you have financing outlets for the people that are using this app? Do you have a little click, “Find some financing on this house?” It then takes that property information, pushes it to a financing company and they let you know what the terms might be.
We put out a good amount of content a little bit around that. We try to practice what we preach, put out educational content and how people take that next step. There isn’t a button through the app like that but we’ve also talked about partnerships that solve that problem and are actively thinking about it. We try to educate people on how to do that and how to take that next step. Our main niche is we want to be the best out there in providing that initial lead for you but then we will require you to take action.
Either pay cash for it or go find some financing for it. That happens to be the type of financing I do. It has to be for investors. It can’t be owner-occupied but it happens. Some of the financing that I do is for the buy and holds, fix and flips, multi-units and stuff. Let me ask you about that. Is this single-family only? Are you finding that this data is still is available for multifamily as well, meaning, more than single?
It can work. Singles are most common but they can also apply to the land, multifamily, commercial and a couple of different ways. It can be creatively applied like that. That’s why we love being on shows like this. “We generate the lead. You got to run with different gear. Jen’s right there.”
It worked out that way. I was hoping you had some financing too because I still like to have all the opportunities possible. Anybody could call me about it too. This is a way to make the transition much easier into that investing world. Tell us a little bit about how this works. You can log on for free but there’s a seven-day trial. You’re giving some things away for us too like project management documents and things like that. What is the process? Tell us a little bit about how we get involved if we want to pursue this more.
How DealMachine works is you’ve got the free CRM. That’s the thing that is going to help you manage your pipeline. You can import up to 50,000 leads already into there. If you have a bunch of addresses already but you want to use our data to backfill that and see more about those owners, what’s absentee and what’s not, what equity they have, we have a variety of different metrics there. You can easily with an Excel or CSV file upload it into the CRM to start there. That’s the free piece.
From there, you have two specific software upgrades that you could potentially look at. You’ve got the list pulling engine. That’s our list feature. That’s the one where you can circle an entire area and show me every lead that fits these criteria. It will dynamically change every week for you. That’s one option. The other option is you’re driving for dollars. That’s the street engine that I talk about. You can upgrade there to be able to either get out there, start driving around, have a map, see where you’ve driven and track your route. When you see a house, add it to your CRM, take a picture of it and send mail. That whole process is the other option.
It integrates the marketing aspect of it, not just the search engine. One does a search, which is fine. If you’ve already built your marketing letters and things like that, then you run with it. Otherwise, that second part is not done for you but it’s done with you.
The goal is to make what you’re doing much more efficient and easy to follow up with. You’re one click away essentially from sending the postcards, direct mail and/or skip trace to get a phone number to call.
Where do postcards come from? Where’s the general location?Business development, in general, is just about providing value. Give any way you can. That way, you're opening doors for yourself. Click To Tweet
We have a direct mail provider we’ve teamed up with. I believe he’s based in Indianapolis.
It’s the middle of the country, which means that the mail will get there quickly, no matter where you are. That’s key.
That was logistically part of it but it usually takes about five days to go from hit send to in their mailbox, based on our process. You can either do printed postcards or ballpoint letters. We have a provider that will be a handwritten-looking letter that is sent that way too.
What is it you’re giving us? I know one’s a checklist.
We had to quick start guide. One of them is your driving for dollars street engine and saying, “How do you get the most ROI possible from driving for dollars?” It’ll tell you, “Here’s a quick checklist of things to go through to get the best ROI from the strategy,” and things that are simple on how to leverage our technology to do that. The other checklist is for a driving team. It’s being able to take that to the next level, hire someone to drive and what you think through step-by-step for that. There are two quick little PDF checklists that we’ll share.
If you’re a loan officer reading, that would be powerful for you to give to a real estate agent and say, “This is what it’s like.” I look at real estate agents too. Many of them want to get into investing, not investing themselves but they want to get into working with investors. They just don’t know it. That becomes their problem and sticking point. If they could find a listing, it would force them in a good way to get started. It would be the trigger that they pulled to be able to get started in doing this. That’s pretty incredible as well.
Our goal is to make that as easy as possible.
Is there anything else you’d like to add?
It’s exciting to try to give people the tools to make this happen for them. If you do try for that free trial, I believe it will give an offer for your audience, specifically saying, “Make sure to sign up.” That way, they have that free trial but then also they’ll get free deal credits, so they’ll be able to send out $15 worth of postcards, skip tracing and all those kinds of touchpoints. If you’re going to sign up, go through that to get those free credits.
Thank you. This entire show is about action. If you’re reading this thinking, “What do I do?” I’m going to tell you to do your research. Go to DealMachine.com to get some information. I have a special link that you can go to so that you can get that extra $15 for the marketing piece of it. I’m going to jump into this as we get into Thanksgiving.
Start creating that CRM, marketing plan and marketing campaign, so it hits once and again after Christmas. It’ll start hitting more and more frequently so you could get a good jumpstart on 2022 at being able to create more streams of income for you. I see all kinds of potential for this. It’s worth the shot. Is there something I missed there on how you would do that?
The timing is great. During that wall is when you want to get creative and be able to come into the year already ahead. That’s a great time to jumpstart.
Someone had a question that said, “If I don’t want to go on the website to get my information because I want to talk to somebody,” what’s the best way that they can reach you, Matt?
They can reach out to me directly. Email would be Matt@DealMachine.com. Feel free to reach out via email and I’ll make sure you’re taken care of.
Mention the show and he’ll take care of you. For those of us that are on the East Coast and West Coast, we know the inside. He’s all gushy and mushy and so much nicer than all of us.
I’m in St. Louis with a team. We’ve got people in Indianapolis and then in the Midwest.
The way that we were introduced was through another show who has a podcast specifically for real estate agents. He saw the value in this as well. If you’re reading this and you’re one or the other, it will catch up and you’re going to be behind the eight ball. Being able to be that straw that stirs up the market and find some properties to help your clients continue to increase their portfolio. I truly believe that.
I’m excited. This is a way to stand out immediately, be able to build a pipeline for the future and prepare for whatever’s coming.
Matt, thank you so much for your time. I sure appreciate it.
Thanks for having me on, Jen.
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About Matt Kamp
Matt Kamp is the VP of Partnerships for DealMachine, the leading growth platform for real estate investors. DealMachine helps real estate investors scale a team of drivers to identify local distressed properties and build a marketing list you cannot buy, reducing marketing spend and increasing ROI.
Matt previously led partnerships for Influence & Co., an Inc. 500 list content marketing agency, and helped grow the firm from 8 to 80 employees. Matt also co-organizes Funders & Founders, a virtual networking event connecting entrepreneurs with investors and vendors to help them grow. Matt is a family man with two boys and a new baby girl at home.
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