Create A Defining Difference For A Significant Life With Cindy Ertman

MLM 303 | Defining Difference


You have the gifts you need to succeed. Use the power of choice today to create a defining difference in your life. Jen Du Plessis welcomes Cindy Ertman, the CEO & Founder of The Defining Difference®. Cindy shares how she had to use the power of choice during the darkest moment of her life. She had to go through the pain of divorce and facing her best friend’s murder. It wasn’t easy, but she knew she had what it takes to live a significant life. Join in the conversation and be inspired to use the power of choice. You can create a defining difference in your life right now. Tune in!

Looking for some help? Jen is seeking individuals who would like to be featured as a panelist on the show for her Mortgage Lending Mastery Mastermind Series. Email to get scheduled!

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Create A Defining Difference For A Significant Life With Cindy Ertman

I have a very special guest with us, Cindy Ertman. She is an icon in our industry and we’re friends too. The last time that we got together was a few years ago in Atlantic City. We had a little cocktail the night before we go on stage. It was fun. We got to catch up and see what each other were doing in our respective coaching and mentoring programs. 

I’m holding the Win or Learn book, the collaborative author book that we were both in. In 2020, we came out and we went to number one status. It’s an accumulation of many women in the industry that we’ve all been around for a long time. We were baring our souls on some of the struggles that we had as we climb the proverbial ladder of success in a man’s world at that time. We were being the boat, not the wake.

Let me tell you a little bit about Cindy. She is the CEO and Founder of The Defining Difference. It’s the name of her coaching program. She’s devoted to helping people master the power of intentional choice to create a defining difference in their own lives. She was acknowledged in the Top 100 Most Influential Mortgage Executives in America several times. She’s been in Mortgage Originator Magazine and has spoken on all kinds of stages.

We run into each other, occasionally. It’s been COVID so we haven’t really run into each other. She’s developed a track record for success for people who are wanting to take their business to the next level. It’s all about business. We’re going to dive into some personal stuff too because you’re not sharing a lot of your personal things. Welcome to the show, Cindy. It’s a delight to be able to have this opportunity to talk to you because we don’t talk any other time.

Thanks, Jen. It’s such a pleasure to be here. I appreciate you inviting me.

Let’s talk about the book first and then we’ll go into some other things. This was called Win or Learn: The Naked Truth. We crossed out the word, lose. It’s not win or lose. It’s where were baring our souls and getting authentic and genuine behind the facade that we portray as strong women in the industry. We’re out there saying, “We got this.” We were sharing some of our secrets. I’ve read your chapter. Tell us the part of the chapter that most resonated with you or was most difficult for you to bare to everyone.

There are probably a couple of parts in the chapter that I didn’t go deep because the stories were long. We were limited on time in our space. One was going through a divorce. When my 30-year marriage came to an end. One of the most painful parts of my personal journey was when my number one referral partner and my best friend on the entire planet was murdered by a jealous ex-husband. That turned my world upside down without question.

I know that story because you’ve shared it with me personally. As I was reading it, I was like, “Good for you because you kept it on the surface.” You didn’t go too deep because it’s such a painful part for you. Let’s talk about your divorce. It’s almost a prerequisite when you come into this business, “Are you a drinker? Have you been divorced?” You almost have to have that. Thankfully, I haven’t done either. It makes you circle the drain quite a bit. It’s such a suck on personal life. This is something that both of us coaches on with maturity. We’ve realized that there’s more to it. Let’s talk about the impact that you feel that relationships have when you’re in this business, and how you’ve learned to overcome them and make you first and not the business.

I remember when my son was two years old and I was sitting at my desk. I was raised in a very traditional household. My mom didn’t work. She stayed home with the four kids. We ended up buying a home in Manhattan Beach, California, which is a very expensive place to live. I remember sitting at my desk and thinking. I still have this vision in my brain that I wanted to be a stay-at-home mom, not forever but for a period of time. I remember having a full-on Cindy Ertman pity party for a couple of weeks into work going, and then coming to this revelation that that was not going to be my path or my journey. It was a hard revelation because it’s all about the choices we make.

I could have moved an hour inland and had a much different lifestyle and less expensive area, but I was here for the schools and for the place to raise my children. I came to that realization first and foremost that I wasn’t going to be the stay-at-home mom and giving up that dream. I’ve talked to other coaching clients that have had to go through the same when they realize they have a lot of success in this business. I then reframed it as I typically do when there’s any big challenge in my life. I went, “God gave me the talent to be able to do this crazy business in a big way and help more people.” Not everybody’s given that gift.

God gave you the talent to succeed and help more people. Click To Tweet

I wanted to reframe this and go, “I’ve been given this incredible opportunity. How do I create a way to balance it?” Everyone always says, “You can’t do work-life balance.” I did get pretty darn close. I worked hard and it takes a toll on every area of my life. I would dissect my business quarterly. Where that impacted my personal life is I would get clear about what I needed. Sometimes, as you know because you’ve been there, we need another LOA. We need support. Sometimes you need marketing support.

I’m very blessed because I was married. I married my college quarterback and a great guy. I was married for 30 years and had an incredible life and raised three amazing children together. It takes a lot of work in any circumstance and you add the pressure of this business and how all-consuming. One of the things I started doing was dissecting what was the most important. In a lot of my coaching, we try to dissect the non-negotiables in your life. It’s that ongoing giving yourself permission to be able to have a life.

I learned early on that for the sake of my marriage and for the sake of my children, there did have to be non-negotiables. What I have experienced is that as long as they’re reasonable and people know how you operate and you’ve shared what those are so people know that. On my phone, my outgoing voicemail would say, “If you’re getting this voicemail and it’s 6:00 to 8:00 at night,” or it was probably 6:00 to 7:30 at that time, “I’m going to be having dinner with my children so just know that I’ll be checking my voicemail at 7:30. I’ll call you back.”

People knew what to expect but I gave myself permission. My children would tell me when I was so worried that I was working all the time. They said, “Mom, we are the only family in Manhattan Beach that has dinner together every night.” Non-negotiables were a two-week vacation. We went to islands all over the world. Every summer, we took two weeks off. That was one of my non-negotiables to reconnect as a family and with my spouse, and to go away quarterly.

That was another to-do, the weekend thing quarterly and get to a different location. My kids used to kill me because I would book vacations with no TVs and no internet. It was amazing what would happen. For women in this business, I got clear in doing a productivity exercise that I thought I needed another loan assistant. It turns out I needed a personal assistant to manage my life.

That was the best hire, the best money I ever spent. She took over managing my calendar and my email. She helped me with marketing, my hairspray, booked my travel and spoke with partners. I was able to focus on my business. When I was home, I was much more able to focus on family. I never felt that my marriage fell apart because of this business. There are things when the pressure would start to mound when I wasn’t home enough.

What got challenging and I’m sure you can relate to this is when I started speaking on national stages for the mortgage industry. It wasn’t me just working until 7:00 at night. I could be gone for 2 or 3 days. I remember accepting a big event. Probably my first big event with 2,000 people. It was an event for my daughter and they collided. I was struggling. I remember calling my coach at that point and saying, “I’m struggling.” He got me clear again. We always have to remind ourselves what our priorities are and have our filters around them. I canceled the event. I would have never forgiven myself to not show up for my daughter’s event.

 I’m proud of you for doing that. Not that you need me to be, but I love hearing that because that happened to me. I had the opportunity to go to Dubai to speak. It was very good money but my daughter was getting married. We were going to look at dresses. Could I have moved it? Sure, but I didn’t want to. I said no and God blessed me on the backside of it. I’m sure that’s what happened with you as well. One of the things I want to talk about because we’re both women talking about this business is the challenge I had.

I’m still married. I’ve been married for many years. The challenge that we’ve had is that sometimes we grow faster than our spouses and they can’t keep up. I don’t think this happens for women. This happens for men too. We grow out of our spouses because of the success that we have in our business. In your case, you’re saying, your non-negotiables. In my coaching, we use core values. What are the boundaries that I’m going to set for my core values?

These are my principles and non-negotiables. It’s the same thing. Aside from that, what counsel can you give to someone who’s reading and saying, “I’m growing out of my marriage? I’m growing out of my relationship. I’m succeeding and I’m successful. All those things are great and grand.” My mom used to have this quote, “We flatter those we scarcely know. We please the fleeting guests, but we deal with many a thoughtless blow to those we love the best.”

MLM 303 | Defining Difference

Win or Learn: The Naked Truth

You bring up such an important point because, without a doubt, that was probably the biggest challenge of my marriage right there. I don’t know where this stems from. Probably it’s because I was very close to my dad growing up. I’m a growth junkie. I’m all about growth. I wouldn’t be a mortgage coach if I wasn’t about growth. Now, I get to fuel people every single day, important to them and help them grow, which is such a great gift. The reality is I was always a growth junkie.

I was one of the top producers in the nation. I was running a very large branch of 65 people. I had 32 LOs that I was managing. My partner and I built a region. We’re the 12th largest mortgage bank in America. I was raising three kids. I had a very full life but the reality was I continued to go, whether it be mortgage conferences to continue, even though I was on the stage teaching people. I also would go to conferences and learn from every single person in the room.

I also became interested in personal development at a young age. I followed a lot of personal development leaders. In 2006, I met Jack Canfield who wrote all the Chicken Soup for the Soul books. I met him at Steven Marshall’s Mortgage Conference. The gentleman sitting next to me said, “Have you read his book, The Success Principles?” I said, “No.” He’s like, “You should get that book. It’s great. I liked Jack’s message. He was very down-to-earth and grounded. It was my kind of training.” I went home and I bought the book. I didn’t just read the book but I studied the book and I resonated with Jack’s message. I ended up reaching out and through a long series of things, it is funny how the universe is when you set your intention, I ended up getting invited by a friend to go to Jack’s home. He was doing video training at Jack’s house.

I went as a fly on the wall and met Jack’s president, Patty Aubery. We spent the better part of a day together. Long story short, I sign up for his year-long training program, Train the Trainer. The first year he ever led it with 100 trainers from all over the world, three physical weeks together. My husband thought I was insane. My friends thought I was insane. To be honest, I thought I was insane too. I tried for three days to get out of that training and get my money back because it’s not what I signed up for, but what that training taught me is that sometimes what we think we need is not what we need at all.

I thought I needed more business training and that ended up being a deep dive into the personal development world. When I came out the other side of that, I remember thanking Jack and tears were pouring down my face. I’m looking at Jack and saying, “You took me on my longest journey from my head to my heart.” He got me completely reconnected and back into my body. It was at that moment when I got home that I had stopped long enough to realize that this marriage I had been in was hugely disconnected. In this business, we move so fast that we don’t even feel anymore. People can relate. You get into that sphere of you’re getting up and getting kids lunches. You’re getting them off to school. You’re getting ready.

You’re, “Go, go, go,” constantly.

That was the beginning of this realization of disconnection. I’m a fixer like mortgage people are, “We’re going to fix this.” How can we reconnect again? What started to emerge was I was a growth mindset and I was married to someone who is a more fixed mindset. I had all these desires and passions to grow and we weren’t growing together. We were growing apart and that is what happened. You hit it right on the head.

Brian’s in the mortgage business so it helps that he’s in that business. Even with my dancing, because I’m a competitive ballroom Latin and swing dancer, I‘ll start graduating and going higher and higher. I go grab him and say, “You need to go catch up and get three more lessons because otherwise, I’ll never be able to dance with you again. You’ve got to stay with me.” Sometimes we have to stop and look back, pull and tug and get them there. I’m blessed that he’s of that mentality but not to the speed that I am.

The reason why I wanted to bring up this topic is because I had a sense that’s what it was because most of us women in this book have that story. Whether we’re married, divorced or not, we have that story of growth where the other party resents, gets jealous, can’t keep up or whatever the reason is. I want to point that out for our readers because I want you to recognize that in your growth. It’s good to grow, just make sure you bring your family along and that they’re willing to go with you. You have a real conversation about it. Thanks for sharing, validating and edifying the fact that is something that is a problem for our industry just because we don’t recognize it.

I want to switch gears and talk about some loan things. One of the things you said in the book is that what you have truly learned is highly successful people are willing to be uncomfortable for the sake of growth and don’t we know it. You have to get your panties in a wad and do what you have to do. One of the things that I’m going through right now is a year-long program with Darren Hardy. He’s my Jack Canfield. By the way, I’m working on my TV show with Mark Victor Hansen. He’s involved in that. He co-wrote Chicken Soup for the Soul.

Take the focus off you because it's not about you. It's about being of service to someone else. Click To Tweet

As we decide that we’re going to take this growth path, and I imagine that anyone who’s reading this is saying, “How can I get more loans? How can I close more houses?” I have both realtors and entrepreneurs reading. “How do I get more?” One of the things that Darren is teaching us which is amazing is he taught us about courage. If we could just muster up twenty seconds of courage so that we don’t have a life of fear for that one situation.

In lending, in real estate, we have to make that nasty call, “Eat the frog.” A term from Brian Tracy, Eat the Frog. We just have to do it. We have to make that nasty call that’s going to make us feel uncomfortable. They might say no, but that truly is how you grow. I’d like for you to expand on that and speak to the audience. Here is how I want you to work this in. 2020 was a killer year for everybody. Everybody had a great year. It’s the best year ever.

I spoke at a conference and I asked, “Who had the best year ever?” “It’s the great year ever.” Now the dust is settling. In 2020, I kept preaching and preaching, “You’ve got to work on your foundation.” This is what everybody was struggling with when it first came out when rates dropped and everybody was crazy busy. They didn’t have that foundation and processes in place. I was concerned about short-term gain for long-term pain. Now here we are and some people are doing very well, but others are going right back into that same doggone pattern. What do they need to do? What do they need to get uncomfortable with to ensure that they don’t circle the drain and go down the drain, so we can turn the faucet off, plug it up and they can get it filled up?

You and I had been through a couple of those anomaly years in one’s career. The year that I hit my highest production year and I hit $200 million in personal production with a team of four people, we were lucky on many levels. We had built the systems, the processes and the team, and then the stars aligned. I already had the team and the foundation built. We’re able to take advantage of that market. One of the struggles, particularly as a coach and helping people build teams for a living, is that many people did not have their systems and team in place. They weren’t able to take advantage of that market. The people that had built the teams and foundation tripled in one year.

They exponentially grow.

One of my clients, in two years, went from $40 million in production to $58 million to $132 million in that whole year before we built the team.

They didn’t leave any money on the table. There are many people that I feel left so much money on the table because all the purchases were coming to them because everyone’s like, “I don’t like you. I want to get a divorce. I want to move. I don’t like my house. I’ve had my job changed. I needed whatever.” They were all working on purchases for a period of time. All of a sudden, all the refis kicked in and thank God, your clients called you.

The only reason that I ever got to $200 million in personal production is my whole career, I did one thing. I had many mentors like Greg Frosts and so many people that I had spent my life with early on. The thing is I always focused on purchase business even in a refi boom and I never stopped prospecting. I feel that served me well. It was uncomfortable then. It’s uncomfortable for many people twenty years into their business. The reality is the fear is the thought process of making the call. It’s the thought process of making it like what Darren is saying, “The twenty seconds, it’s the fear of that. Once you start talking, the fear dissipates within seconds.”

You only need a few minutes.

One of the things is how I got over my own fear of public speaking. I used to have a debilitating fear of public speaking and there was this revelational moment in time where all of a sudden, I realized it’s not about me. We’re on a stage in front of thousands of people. You think you’re going to flub up or maybe you’re not going to be relevant or maybe you’re not going to touch the audience. The reality is it wasn’t about me.

MLM 303 | Defining Difference

Defining Difference: Having a personal assistant was the best hire money ever spent.


What I realized is it’s the same thing in your mortgage business now. If you take the focus off you, “I’m afraid to call you Mr. Realtor because I think you’re going to hang up on me or you don’t want to talk to me.” It’s not about you. It’s about being in service to someone else. I always looked at it this way. This is how I got through my fear because we all have it. I don’t have your business anyway. If I’m calling you cold, I don’t even have your business. I have nothing to lose in making that call. How many people just hang up on you? Even if they did, the reality is they’re not going to kill you. There might be a little bit of a challenging moment with people where they’re telling you they’ve already got a lender and don’t bother them. It’s like, “I’m here if I can ever help you,” and you go about your day.

The reality is we don’t have their business anyway and it’s not about us. You have something genuine to offer that person that you’re calling. One of the exercises we do with my coaching clients is getting clear on your three greatest gifts very genuinely. Whether you’ve been in the business for a long time and you’re clear on what those are, or whether they’re just the organic gifts that you were born with. You’re a great communicator or you’re not going to know all the guidelines right out of the gate, but getting clear and then shining a brighter light on that and being able to put a voice to what those gifts are in a way where people want to connect with you.

At the end of the day, we’re not in the mortgage business, we’re in the relationship business and the connection business. Your job when you pick up that phone to call a potential referral partner or someone you’ve been referred to is to be a light for them, to help support them, to help them build and grow their business, to learn about their story and to be a resource for them. I built my business by just making other people be more successful.

I’ve always said, “It’s not a sales call, it’s a service call.” Especially when we’re talking about nurturing your community. After the closing, a lot of people say, “One and done. Thank you very much. We finished. We’re done.” If you can make that an infinity sign and we’re saying, “Let’s create these beautiful loyal people that come back.” We have to communicate with them. People say, “I don’t know what to say.” Remember, it’s not a sales call, it’s a service call. You’re there to serve them. You’re there to help them. How dare you not serve your client? How dare you not do that? They’re waiting for your help. That’s why I said, “Thank God people had their clients call them,” but look at how many got called by their servicer and went that way.

Whether you have a dedicated team member who handles all those refi booms or not so that you can focus on the purchase side, it doesn’t matter. You’ve got to have these foundations. Correct me if I’m wrong but what you’re saying is this uncomfortableness, this courage that we’re talking about here is, “Just shut up and do it. Just pick up the phone. You’re not going to die. Life’s not going to end. Just do it.” Be sure that you know what the value proposition is. You can’t sell products, rates and services. You can’t sell those things. What makes you special? Make sure you know what makes you special. I love that you say that because a big part of what we talk about too is getting clarity. If you’re selling everything to everybody, you’re selling nothing to no one.

The other thing that I used to do because let’s face it, you get a lot of voicemails. They’re like, “Do I leave a message? Do I not leave a message?” Whether it’s your script or you’re taking one of my scripts, the reality is when you have a script that you can make your own, it became pretty easy for me. If I would write down my script, I would map it out. I would practice it 3 or 4 times at my desk, then I could say it pretty comfortably. People are like, “I don’t know what to say.” One of my clients has been in business for 25 years and he said to me, “You’re going to kill me but I’ve never called a past client.”

First of all, they’re not past. They are alumni because they’re going to come back.

I’ve known this guy for a while and I was surprised, “Why have you never called your past clients?” He said, “Because I don’t know what to say.” On our coaching call, I said, “Let’s write a script right now.” We wrote a script right then and there. I said, “Tweak it however you want but this is what you need to do.” This was 2019 when we first had this conversation. I said, “Chris, I want you to call five clients. They don’t need to have to refinance. Call five people between now and Friday with that script.” He committed to doing so.

Call your favorite ones. It’ll feel better.

Two days later, he called me. He said, “Cindy, I’ve only called three people. I got three loans.” He got 3 for 3. He was like, “I can’t believe it. I’m increasing my goals by $1 million a month because I’m going to call my clients.” It was this revelation for him because he finally had a script and he felt okay. He knew what to say but for 25 years, he didn’t know what to say to his client.

Get clear on your three greatest gifts and put a voice to what those gifts are in a way where people want to connect with you. Click To Tweet

I have a client who is similar to that too. It was all purchase and she’s now closing 52 loans a month. She’ll be probably $110 million this year. She was doing the same thing. “I didn’t know what to say.” I said, “Call 5, 10,” or whatever we said. She called me back and had the same results. “This is pretty easy. I should do more of it.” I was like, “No kidding.”

I call it acres of diamonds. We’ve had loans fall from the sky like stars. They’ve all landed on the floor. They’re all on the ground with these acres and acres of diamonds. What we’re doing is we’re stepping on them, smooshing, cracking and breaking them instead of picking them up and cultivating them. There’s much there for us to have.

Uncomfortable action is what it’s called. Once it’s uncomfortable for a few times, anything else will become very comfortable and it’ll be a piece of cake to pick up the phone and call anybody. I want to take you away from marketing and relationships, and bring you into the actual conveyor belt of doing loans. Everything that you’ve gone through and the adjustments you had to make to make your conveyor belt faster, better, nicer and bigger, and all the pieces of it, what’s your favorite part of the loan process when you’re engaged with it? Some people like numbers and underwriting.

I was in a super jumbo market being in Manhattan Beach, California. I remember having lots of investment banker clients. I’d be masterful at tax returns and complicated tax returns. I studied tax returns. I could prequalify one of the borrowers with multiple corporations, self-employed borrowers, K1s. My clientele was not the easiest ones on the planet. That’s for sure.

They’re complex. They’re not complicated.

That became my specialty. When I finally hit big numbers and I got to be consistent over $150 million in a year in production, it’s because I got really clear on the top five things I wanted to do in the mortgage business. I would encourage people to think about that. If you’re an originator, get clear on what are the top five things you want to do and build your team around that. That’s what I did. I said, “I want to do basically five things.”

I want to build. At that time, I built my business mostly on realtor referral partnerships. That was my gift. I knew how to provide massive value to them. I wanted to build very deep connected relationships with my clients. I’m very curious. I wanted to know them and their story. I am a structure queen because I was great at return. I was a structure master. I would structure the deal. I would lock the loan and I would toss the ball. That was my thing.

The other thing that I did that a lot of people hesitate to do because I hear it every day is if I pull myself away from my borrower, I’m afraid I’m not going to get any business because they want me. Of course, they do because you do it better and faster, but the reality is understanding that when you build a team, the team is a part of you. If you’re lifting the team-up that you’re building it as a cohesive unit and you start selling the team instead of you, it makes it much easier to explain the process. When I would finish my initial call with my borrower, my famous line was, “Let me tell you how our team works.”

It’s the same line we used.

I would introduce them to my loan coordinator, which is what we call our LOAs. Her job is to take your loan through the process. She’s going to be your point of contact moving forward. I took myself out on that one call that I was not the point of contact moving forward. I had a great team so no one had a problem with it. I got to make a couple of cool calls like, “Congratulations, your loan is approved. Congratulations, your loan is funded. We’re excited about the opportunity to serve you.” When you get clear and everyone begins to stay in their lane, you can create that conveyor belt that creates the speed and your clients will love you. It does not have to be you.

MLM 303 | Defining Difference

Defining Difference: Sometimes, what we think we need is not what we need at all.


I preach this day-in, day-out, all the time as people are creating teams. The one thing that I want to share in the context of this is that when you start having more business and you’re hitting that glass ceiling, then you know you have to hire people because you don’t have infinite energy. One thing that we all have to understand looking in the mirror is we have that mentality of, “They want me.” There’s a little bit of an ego, “I built it and they want me.

What ends up happening is, for example, the tax returns. It’s funny because that was my bailiwick too. I was an underwriter before I was in like, “Give me tax returns,” but then I realized that my highest and best use wasn’t doing tax returns. It was doing something else. What ends up happening is when you start growing your practice and you think you’re doing well, once you look in the mirror, you are the problem.

You’re the problem that’s holding things back and you have the law of diminishing returns. You’re not as good as you used to be. Hiring someone who’s better than you’re performing now, not better than the way that you think you perform. As long as they’re rockstars, it will help you grow your business. The other thing I wanted to say is we never said, “I’m giving your loan to somebody.” We always said that listen, “She’s better than me.”

I said the same thing.

It’s always a hand up. Never a handover. Never hand down. We never called anybody as an assistant. “She’s much better. He’s much better at this than I am.” Lean on them. They’re here to support you. They’re here to help you.

There’s no question. It is hard at first. I always equate it with having a full-time nanny that helped me raise my children. As a mom, you’re like, “I want them to love the nanny but not too much because I want them to love me more.” I used to equate it and when I realized it’s like, “No, I want my kids to love our nanny like a mom because she’s helping raise my children. That’s a big part of their life.” I just decided I was going to feel exactly the same way. I knew I had arrived between my loan coordinator getting the closing gifts and they transitioned a little bit.

You get invited to their weddings.

It’s a beautiful thing. It’s like, “I’ve arrived.” They love my team.

Loans closed that you didn’t even know came in. That’s part of it too. I had to go, “Where does that loan from?” “They called us and we took care of them. It was a refi. We’ve worked with them before. It was an easy deal. We didn’t even need you.” That’s awesome. The bottom line is Sam Walton does not need to be walking in every Walmart. It still happens. He created it.

They always say like, “You go to the heart surgeon, you don’t want the heart surgeon doing the prep and taking your blood pressure.” You want them to be the best heart surgeon they can be, 100%. It takes a minute to get your arms around it and to let go of that ego. One of my clients is one of the huge producers. She’s a $180 million a year producer. She’s coming to our retreat. She said, “I still have such a need to be needed and it feels good.”

We all do. We all want validation. There’s no question about it. What we want to be looking at is being validated that what I created, this team I built, is something that people want to come to. That’s where the need is. It’s to continue to elevate that team and elevate the service and the experience that people are getting with you. That’s powerful. Cindy, it has been fantastic to chit-chat with you. Thank you much for coming on the show and it’s been a pleasure to work with you, in the book and the collaboration. We had all kinds of little meetings on the side that we were all having.

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Finding ourselves saying, “We’re not out here alone.” I hope that that’s what everyone sees here is that we don’t have to be competitive as mentors and coaches and speakers with other people. We want to collaborate. There will be people that are drawn to your style and want to work with you. I’m going to ask you one last question because I want to dive a little into personal stuff. When you are looking for junk food, what are you looking for?

French fries.

Don’t tell me you don’t come in mayonnaise.

I don’t dunk them in anything. The only two things I don’t ever want to be taken away from me are bacon and French fries.

It’s always good to know what is that go-to thing.

I don’t like sweets at all. You can take all the desserts. I don’t even have them in my house. I’m grateful for that. I do like savory and salty foods. If I was going to go to one favorite junk food, which I only allow myself to once in a while, French fries would probably be it.

It’s been a blessing. Thank you much. I’m grateful to have had the opportunity to chat with you.

Have an awesome day.

Thank you again for being on the show.

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About Cindy Ertman

MLM 303 | Defining DifferenceCindy Ertman is the CEO & Founder of The Defining Difference® a success-based coaching and training company devoted to helping people master the power of intentional choice to create a defining difference in their own lives.

After being acknowledged as one of the Top 100 Most Influential Mortgage Executives in America by Mortgage Executive Magazine for 5 years in a row and being named in the Top 100 Mortgage Loan Originators in the U.S. by Mortgage Originator Magazine for more than a decade, Cindy has now dedicated her life to empowering the growth of others.

She has developed a track record of helping high achievers shift the way they see the world and expand their vision of possibility by teaching them her total success approach to business and life.

Cindy’s goal is to help her clients get more out of life by making powerful, intentional choices to propel their income and achieve their peak performance and build connected referral relationships to accelerate their success.

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